Dragon First-Person-View (Fallback Version) (vote)

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Which Fallback-View pleases you the most?

First Option (nose + upper head)
1
13%
Second Option (only nose)
6
75%
Third Option (no nose or head)
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

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Dragonlord
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Dragon First-Person-View (Fallback Version) (vote)

Post by Dragonlord » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:18 pm

This vote here is about which fallback first person view for dragon characters you would like to see in the game later. There are two or rather three possible ways. Your task is to vote for the version of your choice and/or leave a comment about it.

But first what is the fallback first person view? What the first person view is everybody should know. This is the view like you would be the character yourself, hence a view from the eyes of your character. Now a dragon has a different anatomy than a human and the 90� first-person view you are used from conventional games can not be used to simulate how a dragon really sees the world. Now this needs some special coding and this view I will present later on. Now if the player does not want to use this true dragon vision (because he can not handle it well or whatever) he can disable this peticular view and then the Fallback-View is used instead which is a conventional 90� first person shooter view.

The first possiblity is placing the camera slightly above the head resulting in you seeing your nose and a bit of the upper part of your head. This would look like this:
*** not existing anymore ***

The second possiblity is to place the camera more in the front which results in you seeing only your nose. This would look like this:
*** not existing anymore ***

The third possilibity would be to place the camera more in front resulting in you seeing nothing from your head.

Open for voting and discussion.

EDIT: i noticed that i can not allow guests to vote as this would result in only one guest to vote and then it is locked for all other possible guest voters. hence i disallowed guest voteing. please register if you want to vote or comment, is quickly done and worth it.
Last edited by Dragonlord on Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Grogdon » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:42 pm

I like the Nose only one. The nose only one doesn't take up as much room as opposed to the nose and upper head one whilst still easy to identify yourself as a dragon. I believe it looks much more real.
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Post by Shiroi_Hiryuu » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:39 pm

Even though Allowing no nose will lessen up video memory useage and not having to render the body. Having the nose makes it much more dragon like.
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Post by Dragonlord » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:44 pm

Shiroi_Hiryuu wrote:Even though Allowing no nose will lessen up video memory useage and not having to render the body. Having the nose makes it much more dragon like.
it makes no difference if the nose is visible or not. the body is always rendered as if you look around (especially with the real dragon view in the end) you can see parts of your body or at last the shadows cast by them.
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Post by thanOS » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:26 pm

I would preffer the nose only option but i guess having the "No nose, no nothing" mode will also appeal to some people.

The structure of the character adds to the reality of the game but when is done correctly. Talking about reality, first person shooters (DOOM, UT, Wolfenstein 3D(talking about the old one here :-) )) depict a character with one or two hands stretched out front, holding a gun (!!!). Have you ever tried wondering around like that? You would eliminate the enemies because they would lough to death seing you walking like that.

Perhaps at some later point a view can be added which realy shows the dragons view. Something like a split screen with left and right eye views and some distortion on the image to simulate Dragons Eye View. By the way, it is said that slit eyes (like the cats and some reptiles have...not that the dragon is a reptile ofcourse ;-) ) are like that so that they offer maximum focus irrespectively of the lights wavelength. Taking wavelength into account, some strange color transformation can be added (perhaps seeing everything green? ) and in extremely dark conditions only the dragons view could reveal specific items (Items would be there anyway).
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Post by Dragonlord » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:55 pm

thanOS wrote:The structure of the character adds to the reality of the game but when is done correctly. Talking about reality, first person shooters (DOOM, UT, Wolfenstein 3D(talking about the old one here :-) )) depict a character with one or two hands stretched out front, holding a gun (!!!). Have you ever tried wondering around like that? You would eliminate the enemies because they would lough to death seing you walking like that.
ever played Jagged-Alliance-2? one of the mercs there has so much muscle he shoots a heavy MG with one arm stretched out. and what about trespasser? that game has been strange as you 'truely' stretched out your arm with the gun. should you ever get the chance to stumble over the trespasser ISO (i have it if you want it ;), veeeery old game hard to find) try it out. it's hell funny (and btw this game already had real physics before the game world even knew what that is :O )
Perhaps at some later point a view can be added which realy shows the dragons view. Something like a split screen with left and right eye views and some distortion on the image to simulate Dragons Eye View.
already done, see http://rptd.dnsalias.net/gallery/album08/dragonview1 and http://rptd.dnsalias.net/gallery/album08/dragonview2. especially read the image comments giving you an idea what you get there.
By the way, it is said that slit eyes (like the cats and some reptiles have...not that the dragon is a reptile ofcourse ;-) )
a dragon is a dinosaur which is a reptile hence a dragon is a reptile.
are like that so that they offer maximum focus irrespectively of the lights wavelength. Taking wavelength into account, some strange color transformation can be added (perhaps seeing everything green? )
you caught my interest as i did not plunge deeper into the slit-eye phenomena. can you mail me some more indept stuff? i would like to see if i can use that.
and in extremely dark conditions only the dragons view could reveal specific items (Items would be there anyway).
this will be in the game. dragon characters have the low-light vision skill allowing them to see better in low-light conditions. hence where a human character sees darkness a dragon can see like in a very dim lit room.
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Post by thanOS » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:54 am

Dragonlord wrote: ever played Jagged-Alliance-2? one of the mercs there has so much muscle he shoots a heavy MG with one arm stretched out. and what about trespasser? that game has been strange as you 'truely' stretched out your arm with the gun. should you ever get the chance to stumble over the trespasser ISO (i have it if you want it ;), veeeery old game hard to find) try it out. it's hell funny (and btw this game already had real physics before the game world even knew what that is :O )
I havent even heard of Tresspasser but taking a look around in the web it seems an interesting game.
Dragonlord wrote: already done, see http://rptd.dnsalias.net/gallery/album08/dragonview1 and http://rptd.dnsalias.net/gallery/album08/dragonview2. especially read the image comments giving you an idea what you get there.
Well, you know what i usually say in these cases about hanging out in the forum more frequently :-)
Dragonlord wrote: you caught my interest as i did not plunge deeper into the slit-eye phenomena. can you mail me some more indept stuff? i would like to see if i can use that.
I have the article with me and i will email you some details later in the day.
Dragonlord wrote:
and in extremely dark conditions only the dragons view could reveal specific items (Items would be there anyway).
this will be in the game. dragon characters have the low-light vision skill allowing them to see better in low-light conditions. hence where a human character sees darkness a dragon can see like in a very dim lit room.
That's excellent!
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Post by Siath » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:42 pm

Dragonlord wrote:
thanOS wrote:The structure of the character adds to the reality of the game but when is done correctly. Talking about reality, first person shooters (DOOM, UT, Wolfenstein 3D(talking about the old one here :-) )) depict a character with one or two hands stretched out front, holding a gun (!!!). Have you ever tried wondering around like that? You would eliminate the enemies because they would lough to death seing you walking like that.
ever played Jagged-Alliance-2? one of the mercs there has so much muscle he shoots a heavy MG with one arm stretched out. and what about trespasser? that game has been strange as you 'truely' stretched out your arm with the gun. should you ever get the chance to stumble over the trespasser ISO (i have it if you want it ;), veeeery old game hard to find) try it out. it's hell funny (and btw this game already had real physics before the game world even knew what that is :O )
Perhaps at some later point a view can be added which realy shows the dragons view. Something like a split screen with left and right eye views and some distortion on the image to simulate Dragons Eye View.
already done, see http://rptd.dnsalias.net/gallery/album08/dragonview1 and http://rptd.dnsalias.net/gallery/album08/dragonview2. especially read the image comments giving you an idea what you get there.
By the way, it is said that slit eyes (like the cats and some reptiles have...not that the dragon is a reptile ofcourse ;-) )
a dragon is a dinosaur which is a reptile hence a dragon is a reptile.
are like that so that they offer maximum focus irrespectively of the lights wavelength. Taking wavelength into account, some strange color transformation can be added (perhaps seeing everything green? )
you caught my interest as i did not plunge deeper into the slit-eye phenomena. can you mail me some more indept stuff? i would like to see if i can use that.
and in extremely dark conditions only the dragons view could reveal specific items (Items would be there anyway).
this will be in the game. dragon characters have the low-light vision skill allowing them to see better in low-light conditions. hence where a human character sees darkness a dragon can see like in a very dim lit room.
I have a thought on this - as dragons would most likely have a more birds eye type of view - basically a 'fisheye' lense for each eye with the 'middle' overlapping over the nose (which the dragon would of course see.)

My thought on the nightvision - erm not 'green' more of a blueish purple...

Just my thoughts.
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Post by Dragonlord » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:13 am

Fish lens eye is a problem. I tried it out with the two-camera approach and this already "special" for the player to work with. Fish lens also is very tricky to do with hardware since it's not a linear transformation like conventional planar projection. It can though be kept as a sort of "tester" for later.

Why blue-purple btw? Green is chosen for night vision since our eyes are most sensitive to green. I tend though to simply augment the lighting level without altering the colors. This way it is clear to see what is animal view and what caused due to technical means ( like NV goggles ).
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Post by Siath » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:31 am

Blueish green - because it's a dragon not a human - that and the way most of the 'nightvision' looks in game hurts my eyes... (but that could be something caused by the 20" monitors brightness setting.)

Also, EVERYONE makes it that green color - and erm blue would be different.
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Post by Dragonlord » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:14 pm

That's correct. In the end though the most important is that the player has the advantages and a good game play. Blue might be different but ur eyes are to blue is in contrary to green much more insensitive which means that using night vision you would see not much more than without it. But the idea is to make the player see much better. From this point of view blue is not a good choice. I would though also not favor green since like said a dragon has "low light vision" and not "night vision".

To explain the difference. Low light vision means that you see well at low light conditions but not much better at full darkness. Hence your eyes produce a small "light amplification". Colors are still well visible but the entire scene appears to be brighter lit. Night vision on the other hand indicates seeing well at darkness. There light is so scarce that although using a high light amplification you can not see colors anymore. This is since our eyes work with a chromatic system HLS ( Hue Lightness Saturation ). In darkness hue and saturation is mostly nothing but the lightness still remains. Hence you get a gray ( but good lit ) view of the world. NV goggles just tint the image green since our eyes are more receptive to green color. So the natural way would be to leave the image "untinted" hence gray. This would give already a distinction between an animal or a human view.

I hope this explains a few things :D
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Post by Siath » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:47 pm

The 'grey' for the dragons vision in low light would be interesting - maybe not 'taking' all color away but more 'muting them to grey' :D

And real night vision googles (USN issue) are redish looking....
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Post by Dragonlord » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:49 pm

Would astonish me. Our night vision is green. Like said we are more receptive to green tones but less to red. Why would they put themselves at a disadvantage by reducing their night vision ability using an inadequate color?
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